Extra Credits
7 HN recommenders · recommended in 14 months, 2015–2018
7:39 · 2M views · Dec 16, 2015
An Extra Credits episode on China's Sesame Credit, which gamifies obedient citizenship through a social score. It covers how the system rewards conformity and pressures people through their friends' behavior.
HN commenters use it as a short, accessible primer on social credit and surveillance-driven gamification, linking it in many privacy and China threads.
20 comments from Hacker News
I believe much of this can be dealt with, if we start RIGHT NOW to address a serious issue in our systems - the lack of a way to represent Morals and Ethics (the When and the Why) in the systems we are building. This needs to provide important input to, and thus shape the DIKW(D) pyramid. I've been doing some work with the IEEE on this - and I'm looking here on ycombinator to get some real-world feeedback on what people are thinking and concerned about. I have some (personal) ideas that might work to address the concerns I'm seeing. { NOTE Some of this is taken from a previous post I wrote (but kinda missed the thread developing, I was late I don't think anyone read it). It is useful for this thread, so a modification of that post follows.} First, I think you need a way to define 'ethics' and 'morals', with a 'ontology' and a 'epistemology' to derive a metaphysic for the system (and for my $.02, aesthetics arises from here). Until we can have a bit of rigor surrounding this, it's a challenge to discuss ethics in the context of an AI, and AI in the context of the metaphysical stance it takes towards the world. This is vital, as we need to define what 'malicious use' IS . This is still an area (as the thread demonstrates) of serious contention. Take sesame credit (a great primer, and even if you know all about it, it is still great to watch: this video ). Now here is a question for you: Is it wrong for the government to create a system that uses social pressure, rather than retrib
> anti-free-basics mindset Ahh, the usual attempt to create factions. > Facebook isn't stopping anyone from providing internet access anywhere. The very idea of "free basics" is about normalizing the idea that Facebook can prevent who people can access. Yes, other providers already exist (removing any need for "free basics"), which is why Facebook is abusing their position as a social network to manipulate people into supporting their plan. They can do this because being a gatekeeper of social interaction is one of the most powerful political tools known to man. > And they certainly don't gain this power by providing free basics. If you read any of the other threads on this topic, you will find examples Facebook's tactics such as lying to users saying their friends support "free basics". That is their existing power as a social gatekeeper. The entire point of this new plan is to extend their gatekeeper position into one of the largest untapped markets on the planet. Without even considering how this position would allow Facebook to monopolize the market, their power as a gatekeeper to monitor social interaction (why do you think they MitM encryption?) and manipulate public opinion is so powerful it should be seen as a threat to national sovereignty . You probably think this is hyperbole, but I'm deadly serious. As I mentioned in a previous thread, the end game of this power to use friends against each other already exists in China under the name Sesame Credit. I recommend wat
Beyond that, consider what Tencent are doing with a "social credit score" to compete with Alibaba's Sesame Credit. It will be scary when these systems eventually migrate to or evolve in the US. Tencent social credit: * [LINK] Sesame Credit video from Extra Credits (almost a couple years old now, but most easily-engaged piece I've seen on implications of social credit): * this video
There's an interesting video from Extra Credits about this. It's based on early announcements and repeats some of the popular points, but it addresses the gamification and social pressure side of the issue which I haven't seen discussed that much elsewhere. I recommend watching: this video
Extra Credits made a video about Sesame Credit a couple of years ago. It's 7.5 minutes long, and well worth the watch: this video Being a game design channel, they discuss Sesame Credit as obedience to the party, gamified.