Shantanu Joshi
7 HN mentions · mentioned in 5 months, 2018–2021
1:06 · 352K views · Apr 3, 2018
A Tesla Model S/X owner films his drive on US-101 in the lane where a fatal Model X Autopilot crash occurred, showing the car steering toward the lane divider without any warning.
It is cited as evidence that other drivers could reproduce the Autopilot behavior in the fatal crash, mostly in critical discussions of Autopilot safety.
7 comments from Hacker News
It should be fairly easy to detect a chevron sign with yellow and black stripes [0] and take evasive measures to slow down, brake heavily or change lanes. From my understanding of CNN neural networks it's a fairly simple classification problem (that A. Karpathy researched, and taught at Stanford; and he's now leading the AI/vision team at Tesla). Looking at the video of the guy that tried that same route again, it looks like the sun was straight ahead (see starting 37th second of video [1]), and I am wondering if the camera had an issue identifying the sign due to the glare from the sun. Do we know if this problem has been fixed now? Can the chevron be identified at the same location by other Tesla drivers today, months after the guy that tested it and posted the video of his car swerving at the same place [1]? Following lane markings are never going to be a 100% reliable method for navigating roads. Even humans miss merging lanes, or have issues at complex surface street intersections where there are multiple overlapping lanes. But humans take evasive action.. they slow down, re-access, look at signs and probably get honked at. Following other cars is never going to be a reliable method for navigating roads. I don't know what the guy in front of me is going to do! I keep my safe distance and take evasive action if the guy in front of me does something stupid. I feel signs are most reliable in that sense. If there is a missing sign, a human is more likely bound to make a mist
From previous reporting on this incident in 2018: > “The driver had received several visual and one audible hands-on warning earlier in the drive and the driver’s hands were not detected on the wheel for six seconds prior to the collision,” Tesla said. “The driver had about five seconds and 150 meters of unobstructed view of the concrete divider with the crushed crash attenuator, but the vehicle logs show that no action was taken.” [LINK] Also, the safety barrier that would've reduced the force of the impact had not been replaced after a recent accident just days before. > Earlier this week, Tesla said the divider was missing a safety barrier designed to reduce the impact of a crash. The automaker provided an image of the location taken a day before the collision that appeared to show the barrier had not been replaced following a recent crash. Reddit thread and Youtube video with a Model S driver reproducing the AP behavior due to the lane markings and uneven pavement: [LINK] this video
Because they're more honest about the "move fast and drive into a concrete barrier" problems? IMO's autopilot'ss scariest incident is where it drove into a barrier between the exit lane and the highway. [LINK] Other drivers were able to reproduce the same behavior, in which the car appears to think that the space between the exit and the highway is a traffic lane that it should follow. This will dump you straight into a wall at highway speeds. this video Tesla fixed it. Then six months later the same behavior is back: [LINK] How do you trust a system like this when any software update could turn the car suicidal with you in it? Yeah, it's also incidents where it saved drivers from a collision with faster than human reflexes, which is great. But you still need hands on the wheel and constant attentiveness or it might kill you in a situation that would be obvious to a human driver. The full self driving dream is further off than Musk will admit.
> Would the Volvo system have picked up and appropriately responded to the gore point involved in the recent fatal Tesla crash? I'd rather ask, would the Volvo system steer towards the barrier like Tesla's AP may have done [1] [2]? "IIHS research shows that AEB systems meeting the commitment would reduce rear-end crashes by 40 percent." [3] AEB on its own may save lives. Whether autosteer systems do or not is an open question. [1] this video [2] [LINK] [3] [LINK]
I've seen several videos of Tesla's autopilot getting confused by road markings and steering towards obstacles as a result. Using fewer sensors gives you less information, which seems like a bad idea for something as critical and difficult as automated driving on public roads. It's strange that Tesla's been getting away with unmet promises and dangerous behavior for years now. this video [LINK] [LINK] [LINK] [LINK] [LINK]