programmersguild
20 HN mentions · mentioned in 15 months, 2011–2025
4:51 · 543K views · Jun 17, 2007
A 2007 clip in which immigration attorneys describe how they help employers run classified ads designed not to find qualified American applicants, so they can secure green cards for H-1B workers. It is presented as an exposé of the PERM process.
HN commenters in H-1B debates post it as evidence that the labor-market test is gamed with fake job ads.
20 comments from Hacker News
Look, Schmidt is just another Obama-tomaton. We can clearly see that here: "Schmidt was a campaign advisor and major donor to Barack Obama and served on Google’s government relations team."[0] It's purdy darn clear that Schmidtty was going to be more useful outside of the government, safe inside of Google's bunkers. Whatever Schmidty might say to the public, he's sitting on his nice little nest egg in the event that TSHTF[1]. He has an escape plan and possibly a security detail and a private jet to get the hell out. Probably has a few panic rooms built into that $22 million home of his[2]. >"His new home in Holmby Hills, an exclusive enclave that is one of three neighborhoods forming Los Angeles’ Platinum Triangle"[2] 'Enclave'? More like burbclave. But let's stop beating up the scarecrow and look at his points directly: >First, support startups. “When you look at the solutions to the problems that you’re describing, which ultimately lead to severe joblessness, they all involve creating fast-growth startups.” Now, it don't matter if your startup is makin' moonshine and running from the Fed[3] to hacking a new way to disrupt the sectors of integrated customer service experiences, it's obvious that startups are focused on Silicon Valley right now -- where the money is. Maybe we oughtta spread those startups out a little bit? >Second is “more education, more information, more connectivity.” He and President Obama have both pushed for more education in science, technology, engine
The devil is in the details. What constitutes a "skilled" worker? The selling point of the H-1B program was that there really were high-paying jobs available that absolutely nobody state side was stepping up to the plate for, so they needed to bring in skilled immigrants who had the chops to take on these high-paying jobs. The imagery was that America's Best Companies were stalling because they couldn't find the "best and brightest." Evidence suggests otherwise ( [LINK] ). Now, I'm not saying you can't find H-1Bs with high salaries or genius intellects. The study linked simply says it's not a majority of the people coming in. Most of them are decidedly not "best and brightest" and certainly aren't pulling six figures annually. That is, the program isn't being used for its stated purpose. Rather, it certainly seems that the goal is _not_ to find local talent, even if it's there ( this video ), because one wants to manipulate the meaning of "prevailing wage" and "qualified worker" to suit a lower labour cost margin. As well, there are other economic indicators to consider. If there really is a widespread tech shortage you'd expect wages to rise. And you can see various market niches' wages spike at certain localized times of labor shortage. But you don't find high and increasing wages across the board, sustained for years at a time. That is, one of the key indicators of a crippling shortage, simply isn't there. The low unemployment rate in tech hubs like Silicon Valley is further
To support his claim here's a video of a law firm advising companies on exactly how to craft employment ads to hire only foreign workers and not hire Americans even if they are qualified. In fact he even says it explicitly, the goal is to not hire a domestic worker, and getting a suitably experienced domestic worker applying for the job is considered a failure state of the process. this video It tells you where to place your ads so that they are "publicly visible" but nobody sees them, and how to craft them to the exact skillset of the foreign worker you're already going to hire. They say that they are complying with the letter of the law, but they are not because the law requires you to make a good faith effort to hire domestically and they are telling you how to reject those candidates even if they apply. this video "our goal is clearly to not to find a qualified and interested US worker." I understand the skepticism on HN because many people are working in places where real high-end work is being done. But I worked in the Midwest for over eight years and we had guys brought in to do Apache Struts work, and half the time I had to teach them how to do it. Maybe part of the reason some of you guys who really need qualified foreign workers are getting squeezed is because other companies are screwing you by fraudulently hiring. Why weren't the people in that video above ever prosecuted? They're on video admitting to crimes.
In my opinion, the real fix is to make the H-1B 'lottery' into an auction. Instead of accepting 65,000 H-1Bs at random--accept the 65,000 H-1Bs with the highest wages. That way we are getting the immigrants with the highest valued skills and stopping companies like Cognizant and Infosys that game the immigration system by applying for the cheapest H-1Bs possible. Look at the biggest H-1B recipients: [LINK] It's all low quality outsourcing shops like Cognizant and Infosys. If you've ever applied for an H-1B then you know how easy it is to abuse the prevailing wages. The process to evaluate the skills of the applicant is simply filling out a form online for their experience level, job title, and location. Give it a test here: [LINK] It's very easy to game their job title and location to lower the salary. Here is the law firm Cohen & Grigsby advising other employers in running classified ads with the goal of NOT finding any qualified applicants, and the steps they go through to disqualify even the most qualified Americans in order to secure green cards for H-1B workers: this video This seems like clear fraud. The issue I have with H-1Bs is when companies lie/cheat/commit fraud to outsource jobs that Americans do want and are qualified/willing to do, all for the sake of driving down wages.
>artificial barriers Like citizenship? Do you consider citizenship an artificial barrier? As someone who has worked at tech companies and various law firms in the Silicon Valley, I've seen this story played out several times. Hire Cognizant, TCS, Infosys, Symphony, or some other outsourcing firm and then bring in H-1Bs for an entire department. All it does is drive down wages for everyone and hurt everyone except for the 1% at the top. How do you feel about companies and law firms gaming job postings to disqualify qualified workers in the US so they can hire someone on a visa for much less? Employers are posting jobs that don’t really exist, seeking candidates they don’t want, and paying for bogus non-ads to show there’s an IT labor shortage in America. Here is the law firm Cohen & Grigsby advising other employers in running classified ads with the goal of NOT finding any qualified applicants, and the steps they go through to disqualify even the most qualified Americans in order to secure green cards for H-1b workers: this video Do you consider this abuse or fraudulent? >Or is this a guise for xenophobia? Implying that the only people against immigration are racists is just a lazy, offensive, and dismissive argument. Try something else.