RSymons “RSEV”
16 HN mentions · mentioned in 12 months, 2022–2025
9:39 · 255K views · May 28, 2022
A guide to charging a non-Tesla EV, here a BMW i4, at a Tesla Supercharger in the UK, with do's and don'ts. It shows the process in practice now that the network is open to all cars.
HN links it as concrete proof that other brands already charge on Tesla chargers in Europe.
16 comments from Hacker News
> Why would you let your competitor who are barely trying to deliver EVs freeload on it? This is such strange thinking. It's not like Tesla will give away free charging. The reality is more EVs using your chargers means more revenue. High utilization is better than low utilization. But you won't listen to me about it, so listen to Tesla instead: [LINK] This is what Tesla is already doing in Europe. It's easy in Europe because Europe has a common charging standard in CCS Type 2 Combo: this video A big benefit of CCS for Tesla owners is that they can easily switch to other charging networks when Tesla's network is uncompetitive: [LINK] The sad thing for North America is that it looks like Tesla will take the extremely cynical approach of allowing low volume manufacturers (like Aptera) to use Tesla's chargers if they adopt Tesla's plug. Hence the recent announcement of Tesla's plug supposedly being "open" and a "standard" now (as opposed to Tesla's previous faux openness): [LINK] Tesla believes that having the chargers support more than one manufacturer in this way will qualify Tesla chargers for US government subsidies. Tesla wants public funds, but doesn't want to provide public infrastructure by using CCS Type 1 Combo. Maybe they'll allow other EVs to charge using a dongle, maybe they won't. But having to carry around a dongle merely to charge your car is just dumb. One more thing to buy, one more thing to lose, one more thing to break. Europe shows it doesn't need to be this wa
> Tesla's charging infrastrucute is a competitive advantage. Tesla's charging network being closed is detrimental to EVs. Closed, incompatible infrastructure is dumb infrastructure. Closed, incompatible infrastructure is backward and primitive. As a self respecting car buyer you should actively select against brands that try to lock you in and brands that try to shut you out. What you want is smart infrastructure. You want to demand that all brands of EV can charge on all brands of charger with no dumb charging accounts. The good news is Tesla chargers work with non-Tesla EVs. They've been open to all EVs in Europe for years. They're open to all EVs in Australia. Tesla has even started to open them to all EVs in North America. It works because Tesla has adopted the CCS charging standard in North America (just like Tesla was already using in Europe and Australia). NACS is CCS charging with the J3400 plug. J3400 is the third plug type CCS supports. Here's a Chevy Bolt charging on a Tesla charger in California. It works because it's CCS: [LINK] Here's an MG charging on a Tesla charger in Australia: [LINK] Here's a BMW charging on a Tesla charger in England: this video Here's a Kia charging on a Tesla charger in England. No dumb Tesla account, no idiot Tesla app. Contactless payment just as Nature intended: [LINK]
> Now it's 2023 - the Tesla connector is superior to the European standard, European EV companies still lag behind and the Tesla standard is being adapted by the industry without any government intervention. This is a complete misunderstanding of the situation. The reality is Europe is a long way ahead of North America on EV infrastructure. The European charging networks are compatible with all EVs because of standardization. More investment has gone into charger manufacturing and charging network deployment because of standardization. You've been able to charge other brands on a Tesla chargers for a long time in Europe: this video You can charge your EV on a 400 kW charger from Alpitronic and FastNed: [LINK] Or use a 400 kW charger from Kempower and Shell: [LINK] Or whatever EV on whatever charging network you like. Europe has done EV infrastructure right. And they've got a plan to make it even better: [LINK] In contrast, North America continues to thrash about trying to arrive at a charging standard. It's still going to be years of fiddling around to get anywhere near where Europe already is. The result North America has ended up with is CCS chargers with Tesla's plug on the end. North America could have and should have got to standardization sooner.
> "Now [the Supercharger network] the linchpin of their brand and their competitive moat against other automakers." This is a very American perspective. The North American EV market is about a third the size of the European EV market. Europe standardised on CCS Type 2 Combo and all brands of EV can charge on all chargers, no nonsense with incompatible plugs and protocols. Here's an American car reviewer charging an EV in Europe and wishing America was the same: [LINK] Here's a BMW charging on a Tesla charger as Nature intended: this video North America's incompatible charging infrastructure is a profoundly stupid outcome and only serves to make EVs worse than ICE vehicles. America is still good at innovation but has forgotten how to do implementation. > But ask the short sellers: Whether the plan is to dominate global EVs or refill batteries, it rarely pays to bet against Musk. Eh, lately it's paid well to bet against Musk. With the 70% fall in Tesla's stock price short sellers have profited: [LINK]
> This is a terrible mistake on Tesla's part. No, the terrible mistake is to have incompatible charging infrastructure. All brands of EV charging network should charge all brands of EV. Anything less than that is a profoundly brain-dead outcome. You can fuel any brand of ICE car at any brand of fueling station because the fuel is compatible and the fueling infrastructure is compatible. Standards make that possible. EVs need not and must not be any different. Europe already has the benefit of standardising on CCS type 2 Combo for EV charging. And that means you can charge a BMW i4 on a Tesla charger, exactly as it should be: this video Equally it means you can charge a Telsa on Ionity or FastNed or Circle K or GridServe or EnBW or McDonald's or BP or Shell or any other charging network. North America doesn't deserve to be held back by primitive, incompatible EV infrastructure. North America deserves compatible EV charging infrastructure for all EVs.