Notes on Nationalism

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1. rramadassSep 2024
   Exactly! Both Orwell and Huxley are right but in different contexts. Also note that both of their works are an exaggerated caricature of aspects of Society which they wished to highlight and show its insidiousness. Thus one has to look beyond the "painted picture" and understand what was being meant.

   However; Orwell had a better insight on the overall issues which can be found in his essays eg. "Notes on Nationalism", "All Art is Propaganda", "Politics and the English Language" (eg. Newspeak) etc.

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2. rramadassJan 2024
   Very Right!

   IMO, his Essays are where the essence is; the novels are merely a thought-experiment on how far you can map the ideas onto a "realistic" world.

   For example, reading his Notes on Nationalism (https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...) will give you greater insight into Animal Farm/1984.

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3. rramadassMar 2022
   Given whats going on in the World now, Orwell's "Notes on Nationalism" is a pertinent read. We must be careful that we don't get carried away by Propaganda and start demonizing "the other side" reflexively.

   Summary on Wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_on_Nationalism

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4. rramadassNov 2021
   >but they also need to bear the consequences themselves.

   Not if you have ruined them completely politically, financially, culturally and socially and moreover stacked the deck against them in the "new world order".

   You bear the responsibility and owe them reparations.

   Relevant: In the context of this thread dealing with Orwell's writings, i highly recommend his essay Notes on Nationalism. - https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

   Excerpt: All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts. A British Tory will defend self-determination in Europe and oppose it in India with no feeling of inconsistency. Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage – torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians – which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side.

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5. dalbasalJun 2021
   Since we're digging up old notes on the topic, this George Orwell classic deals with (IMO) a similar them.

   It's a surprisingly difficult topic to deal with in discreet analytical terms, so I suggest avoiding disagreeing with definitional points and looking to the wider picture. Don't quibble, fix it instead.

   NOTES ON NATIONALISM https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel...

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6. JoeriNov 2020
   Thanks for the mention of Orwell’s notes on nationalism. I just read it and it is remarkably relevant, even if the movements used as examples aren’t.

   As a European it was incomprehensible to me why anyone would vote for trump as I had only received the straw man version of Trump through my local media. But when traveling the U.S. early 2016 I had the good fortune of spending a few hours on a bus with two trump voters and having them explain their hopes for a trump presidency, and it no longer seemed irrational. The hope that having no loyalties or obligations to the political powers that be he could actually have policies which benefited regular people seemed reasonable. There is a fair argument to be made his actual economic policies have indeed mostly benefited Americans, so someone voting just based on the economy would not be irrational in choosing Trump.

   Still, he’s Donald Trump, and a bully. I don’t think I could ever be convinced to ignore all the other stuff to the degree of voting for him. I can understand those who outright dismiss him and anyone aligned with him without seriously trying to engage with their arguments.

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