The origins of political order

What Hacker News says

1. niemandhierJul 2023
   The german lands east of the river Elbe have been different from the western parts of Germany for more than a 1000 years. In the historical record you see a pretty sharp change in marriage patterns,land ownership and political structure when crossing the Elbe.

   The enlightenment was less influential in the rural estates of the ultra conservative east elbian Junkernklasse than it was in the more densely populated Rhineland regions. Fukuyama has a nice chapter on the matter in “The Origins of Political Order”.

   On top of that you have the separation, and the dislike of the GDR to foster critical thinking and the economic collapse of the east after reunification that lead to a lot of brain drain.

   Show morethread
2. unethical_banAug 2022
   The Origins of Political Order was a good book. I felt it had a reasonable way of structuring the understanding of how different societies came about and how a different mix of rule of law, accountability to the people, and the existence of a state.
   thread
3. pyuser583Mar 2022
   I was really drawn to the topic by reading Origins of Political Order by F. Fukuyama.
   thread
4. pyuser583Oct 2021
   He’s done a lot of really good work since then. I recommend “Origins of Political Order.”

   He really has some fascinating ideas.

   thread
5. lmilcinJan 2021
   See, the problem is you misunderstand the situation.

   The legal/political system in China is not new. Actually, China is probably most stable system throughout written history, practicing roughly same government/legal system and its approach to relation between government and individual person for the past two millennia.

   Which is to say that in China, as opposed to western civilizations, there is no human rights as we now it because Chinese people are and have always been subservient to the government.

   In western civilizations monarchy powers slowly eroded and had to either give concessions or be overthrown in a violent revolt. This never happened in China.

   If you have doubts, just read The Origins of Political Order (Francis Fukuyama). This is well explained there.

   Ignore labels like "People's Republic of China", the fact is that people in China have only so much rights as it suits the government to give them for the country to prosper. And it does not hesitate to reserve those rights the moment it suits some need.

   Do I agree with this? It does not matter.

   Stay on the facts.

   Show morethread
6. lmilcinJan 2021
   > China overthrew its monarchy in 1911. Hundreds of thousands died.

   So you say every time there is a revolt and one government is replaced with another it means a fundamentally different way of governing people, different political system?

   The reality is that nothing really changed and China and, again, I will invoke "On Origins of Political Order" because it is very well explained there.

   Just because a monarchy has been replaced with Mao (de facto monarch) and then with single party doesn't mean people gained any rights.

   While people in western world were slowly getting more rights (shifting from a absolute monarch to rule of law to concept of human rights) nothing of that sort happened in China.

   Think of communist party as a collection of princes that band together to govern a huge mass of people but not for the good of the people, but rather for the good of the party (collection of princes).

   Where those goals coincide this results in goals for the good of the people but where they do not, this will result in killings, mass incarcerations, etc.

   Show morethread