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    Break & Enter

    breaknenter.org · Personal blog · on HN since 2012

    A security researcher behind Inception, a tool that uses DMA over FireWire and Thunderbolt to access a running machine's memory.

    Visit blogHN submissions
    SecurityHardware & Electronics
    What HN says

    HN links it as proof that DMA attacks over FireWire and Thunderbolt are practical, with commenters noting that Macs mitigate this when the screen is locked.

    Stats for nerds
    22HN people shared it
    9linked in comments
    351story points
    Jun 2015last shared
    2012people per year2015

    Top posts on HN

    1. 1
      Inception - Root any machine over FireWire, Thunderbolt, others
      16 people · 244 points · first shared 2012 · 62 comments on HN
    2. 2
      Thunderbolt-DMA-land: Hacking Macs through the Thunderbolt interface
      6 people · 66 points · first shared 2012 · 22 comments on HN
    3. 3
      Windows 7/8, Linux, OS X Full Disk Encryption FireWire Exploit
      1 person · 36 points · first shared 2013 · 51 comments on HN
    4. 4
      Inception: Implant arbitrary Metasploit payloads directly into RAM
      1 person · 3 points · first shared 2014 · Discussion on HN
    5. 5
      IPad 3 vs The New iPad: What Apple has learned from Don Draper
      1 person · 2 points · first shared 2012 · Discussion on HN

    What HN people wrote when they linked it

    • justabystanderJun 2015

      > I'm not sure why Apple should be singled out for addressing this.

      You're correct in that it's not an Apple-only security issue. I'm not sure if the person you're replying to meant to imply that. However, Apple has never been particularly concerned with pointing out security vulnerabilities. Up until three years ago they were claiming that OSX didn't get viruses and that you could be safe by doing nothing. (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/06/its-official-apple-computers-are-no-longer-virus-free/258902/) That's why Apple gets a lot of flak from security-oriented folk. They mislead tons of people into thinking that "Macs don't get viruses". And I still hear self-proclaimed geniuses who tell me this, and why it's the reason they'll only use Apple products.

      Considering Apple changed their slogan to "built to be safe" after being heavily compromised and criticized by the media, they do deserve a push to take care of hardware security issues by default. After all, security is built in, right? Shouldn't they make some proactive security efforts after advertising to their users repeatedly with the premise that their users shouldn't care about security?

      > Actually, Apple has shown foresight in its hardware selection

      That link you share came around four years after OSX (and Windows) had the login screen compromised with Firewire hacking devices (http://www.hermann-uwe.de/blog/physical-memory-attacks-via-firewire-dma-part-1-overview-and-mitigation). Of which…

    • jacquesmJan 2015

      Extremely impressive this, the tenacity of the author is incredible.

      Basically the upshot of this article is (for me) that if you own some piece of hardware you can only really trust it if it has never been out of your sight after you bought it (and hopefully it wasn't compromised before you bought it).

      Shipping your laptop as checked in luggage, leave it on your desk overnight or go to lunch and when you see it the next time around it might not be your computer any longer.

      Another very impressive bit to me was the fact that a financial institution took its security serious enough that they commissioned this work.

      The whole thing is reminiscent of the inception hack:

      http://www.breaknenter.org/projects/inception/

      I'm imagining this guy working for the Apple center on Wall Street or near it plugging a little dongle into every macbook before it gets sold.

    • werrettApr 2012

      Not false I'm afraid. I use this issue to grab FileVault passwords from OSX boxes on a monthly basis.

      In combination with DMA access from the Firewire port it can be quite fun[1]. Although with Lion, you can't use DMA when the machine is locked.

      "Secure Virtual Memory" only does just that -- Encrypts the memory that is being swapped out to your disk. I've never done a memory dump and found the FileVault password has been swapped out. Probably because it is being used all the time to secure disk read/writes.

      The latest OSX really is behind the latest Windows on the security front. Windows has just been the focus of intense hammering on that front over many many years and they've been force to improve their game.

      And I say this as a mac user, as 99% of my pentester colleagues are.

      [1]: http://www.breaknenter.org/projects/inception/

    • deutroniumDec 2012

      So it relies on taking a memory dump, this doesn't sound like anything new, for example you can do similar things with https://citp.princeton.edu/research/memory/code/ which is open source.

      And you can perform the firewire attack using http://www.breaknenter.org/projects/inception/

      Additionally memory can also be dumped via PCI
      e.g. http://www.grandideastudio.com/portfolio/tribble/

      If you're concerned about such attacks you could use an external device which lets you enter a password using its own keyboard, meaning the key is stored in volatile memory on the external device - not accessible via a memory dumping tool. And then don't leave the device plugged into the computer when you're not around.

      And bruteforce attacks have been around for a while using GPUs for instance Passware's forensic program.

    • t0mas88Mar 2014

      So if I understand correctly this can be used to install a persistent hardware rootkit on the chipset that listens for a "secret" knock procedure with TCP (because it has access to the NIC) and then in response to the secret signal modify the host OS kernel through DMA-access to disable for example all access checks [1].

      Imagine infecting a machine with this either before delivery (requires physical access, but should be doable for FBI/NSA/foreign-counterpart) or in a "rent a server" situation. Most providers will allow you to rent a full server with root-access for a month and then cancel the contract. I'm assuming those servers get re-used if they're not too old.

      [1] Code to disable access checks through DMA has been around for a long time: http://www.breaknenter.org/projects/inception/

    • jamedjoJan 2014

      Yes, very easy. In a mac you just plug in a Firewire/thunderbolt device[1]. More extreme measures involve freezing the RAM. Both require physical access to the machine, but a bit more scary that plugging your laptop into a public display/TV gives an attacker control of your computer and passwords.

      Full disk encryption TrueCrypt/BitLocker/FileVault can act as countermeasures[2] and modern versions of OSX don't allow DMA from the login screen anymore.

      [1] http://www.breaknenter.org/2012/02/adventures-with-daisy-in-thunderbolt-dma-land-hacking-macs-through-the-thunderbolt-interface/

      [2] http://www.researchgate.net/publication/49277520_Cold_Boot_Memory_Acquisition_An_Investigation_Into_Memory_Freezing_and_Data_Retention_Claims/file/79e415119b9e5376e1.pdf

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