sunshinepress
20 HN mentions · mentioned in 15 months, 2010–2021
17:47 · 17M views · Apr 3, 2010
WikiLeaks' release of cockpit footage from a 2007 US Apache helicopter attack in Baghdad that killed a group of men including two Reuters staff, and then a van that came to help the wounded. The video includes the crew's radio chatter and context on the military's initial account.
HN cites it as the key evidence of what Chelsea Manning leaked and as an example of civilian deaths in war, with some early commenters disputing how to read the footage.
20 comments from Hacker News
Right, because photo stills from "collateralmurder.com" are intended to convey the ease of identification from a moving helicopter during a live situation? There are other form factors for RPGs: [LINK] [LINK] [LINK] I wouldn't want to be wrong on the fly about whether it was an RPG or a black telephoto barrel that's sticking around the corner aiming at my crew. Presumably I'd use other cues to help decide. The site leaves out stills showing the key decision-triggering factor - surreptitious behavioral cues. Here is one they left out: [LINK] The site talks about the cameraman shooting a picture of "whatever is occurring further down the street" but the video, even in slow replay (that the airmen didn't have in the moment), suggests the man is taking cover then popping out to aim at the helicopter. The man appears to "engage" the helicopter. Thinking in context of 2007, that was incredibly dumb: this video Want a picture of an American chopper while you're walking in a hostile zone with militia carrying what even "collateralmurder.com" admits "might be a weapon" and "appears to be a weapon" -- ok, stand in the middle of the street with your camera, wave your obvious press card while wearing your obvious press jacket, and take your picture. Don't duck around corners then share the intel with your gun carrying group. Troops made a call about the RPG vs camera (though certainly doesn't look like a white Canon lens as shown in the website, looks black, and that tube and the way he aim
> What wrong-doing did Manning uncover; what crimes? Here are some US troops shooting at unarmed civilians, children and Reuters journalists. There was never a gun held, or fired except by the US troops... this video This is the reality of asymmetric warfare, where doing your job walking down the street in Baghdad can get you killed. There are 1000's of such incidents we know about thanks to Manning. This happens to be the most graphic and easily understood because it is a video. Other stories are contained in the giant databases and are a couple of hundred words of text. Personally I uncovered a case in Cablegate where the US Ambassador to Nigeria asked for someone to be rendered to the US without going through the Nigerian Courts. This constitutes extraordinary rendition, moreover, this was pre-911 before extraordinary rendition was known to be widespread. If anybody actually looks at the material, you'll grasp its significance immediately. Moreover, there is a good chance with 250,000 cables and countless war logs if you see something significant, you are the only person in the world to have recognised the significance of that piece of information.
I think its pretty clear that she refused to testify out of principle. None of the war criminals exposed by Manning's leaks have been charged or tried for their crimes. The government's refusal to charge the war crimes, which are central to the entire case, completely undermine any pretense of "justice". As usual, the government is using its infinite power to punish those who exposed wrongdoing, while completely ignoring the actually wrongdoing that was exposed. I find it quite admirable that Manning refuses to be used as a tool to further this charade of injustice, at great personal expense. Being held in "contempt of court" is no vice when the court, and the prosecutors, have done everything possible to earn that contempt. For those unfamiliar with the still unprosecuted war crimes exposed by Manning (and published by Assange): this video
Provably false. Here is the exact second that freeze-frame above is taken in the collateral murder video this video Compare with the picture that the US military claims is of an armed person [LINK] That person isn't carrying anything let along a weapon. At the exact time the US troops say "that's a weapon" (around or just after 3:13) and thus fix the belief that the group is carrying weapons, from the Apache all that is visible in shot are 2 camera men, with cameras. What amazes me is that who ever decided to make this picture didn't go to the effort to at least make a claim that wasn't provably false from the available evidence. It's really hard to prove a negative existential statement, so that would have been on their side.
> What exactly was Bradley Manning trying to whistleblow about? Seen collateral murder [1]? > Its hard to say that that is not treason. Really? It's so easy to kill the messenger. Not to bring in the emotional aspect of this typical power structure vs. single human issue here, but then treason would be the last word I'd want to use for the guy who uncovered killing of innocents and wrong doings of some (I think most soldiers are not trigger-happy rather good people who love peace) stupid crazy soldiers in our army (who should be behind bars instead!). Let's not forget that we pay the bills for all this. [1] this video