USENIX
12 HN recommenders · recommended in 15 months, 2021–2026
1:06:20 · 46K views · Aug 6, 2021
Timothy Roscoe of ETH Zurich delivers the joint USENIX ATC/OSDI 2021 keynote arguing that operating systems must reckon with modern hardware, which is a heterogeneous collection of processors, firmware and coprocessors rather than a simple machine. It shows how much runs below and beside Linux.
Repeatedly recommended as a revelatory talk on how little control the main OS has over modern SoCs and PCs.
20 comments from Hacker News
There's this great USENIX talk by Timothy Roscoe [1], which is part of the Enzian Team at ETH Zürich. It's about the dominant unholistic approach to modern operating system design, which is reflected in the vast number of independent, proprietary, under-documented RTOSes running in tandem on a single system, and eventually leading to uninspiring and lackluster OS research (e.g. Linux monoculture). I'm guessing that hardware and software industries just don't have well-aligned interests, which unfortunately leaks into OS R&D. [1] this video
This isn’t my space to opine on, but I found this talk both riveting and compelling: this video In a nutshell, the useful fiction of computer-as-Von-Neumann-meaning doesn’t adequately reflect the reality of modern hardware. Not only does the CPU itself not fit that model (with things like speculative execution, sophisticated power and load management…), but the system as a whole is increasingly an amalgamation of different processors and address spaces.
I know that I recommended it in the talk, but I highly recommend Timothy Roscoe's OSDI keynote[0] -- and may also be worth catching the Twitter Space we did a few weeks ago discussing it.[1] [0] this video [1] [LINK]
Plenty of good links here already. I'll just add that booting is enormously complex, and starts well before any of the dozen comments so far. I skimmed many of them (not all) and they all tell pretty much the same story whether on real hardware or virtual. But modern real hardware first boots a Management Engine (or BMC, or T2, or similar), which prepares things and starts subsystems like hardware controllers, before releasing the CPU where the "OS" finally boots, blissfully unaware that it is running on an abstraction. Watch this video from about 10:00 to about 20:00 for a decent super high level overview. These two are also good for a deeper understanding. [LINK] [LINK] They both cover UEFI, even though the focus is on T2. I know that's well beyond what you were asking for, but the boot process goes well beyond GRUB.
Very interesting. This reminds me a ton of L4, with its message passing style. I'm curious if it was inspired by L4. It's a great talk, and my only disappointment was that I was hoping to hear about what comes after. After watching the OS talk that Cantrill references [0], I really want to know the answer to "what does an OS that runs across a bunch of heterogeneous chips look like?" Having Hubris be just a single-node OS was a bit of a let down, so I will be staying tuned for the sequels. [0] this video EDIT: Went to go read the docs and: "The operating system that originally made this point was L4, and Hubris’s IPC mechanism is directly inspired by L4’s"