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    Cover of The wealth and poverty of nations

    The wealth and poverty of nations

    David S. Landes · 1998

    David S. Landes tells the long, fascinating story of wealth and power throughout the world: the creation of wealth, the paths of winners and losers, the rise and fall of nations. He studies history as a process, attempting to understand how the world's cultures lead to - or retard - economic and military success and material achievement. Countries of the West, Landes asserts, prospered early through the interplay of a vital, open society focused on work and knowledge, which led to increased productivity, the creation of new technologies, and the pursuit of change. Europe's key advantage lay in invention and know-how, as applied in war, transportation, generation of power, and skill in metalwork. Even such now banal inventions as eyeglasses and the clock were, in their day, powerful levers that tipped the balance of world economic power. Today's new economic winners are following much the same roads to power, while the laggards have somehow failed to duplicate this crucial formula for success. The key to relieving much of the world's poverty lies in understanding the lessons history has to teach us - lessons uniquely imparted in this towering work of history.

    Economics & Finance
    Open LibraryAmazon
    Stats for nerds
    4recommend
    17mentions
    9people
    2012–2026years
    65% recommend35% neutral

    Mentions per year

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    What Hacker News says

    1. Mainan_TagonistJul 2026
      On the topic of economic development, David Landes is worth reading, both the Unbound Prometheus and The Wealth and Poverty of Nations provide a solid understanding of the reasons behind the development of Western Europe over the past 500 years.

      The 5 Dragons (Taiwan, South Korea, HK, Singapore, Japan) followed pretty much the same recipes that made Britain, France, Germany, Switzerland industrial powerhouses in their days.

      thread
    2. than3May 2023
      > Money is created when debt is issued and it is destroyed as the debts are repaid.

      fourier, fundamentally the quoted statement is wrong except in a very narrow niche. Its a overgeneralization that ignores core principles.

      There's no real way to clarify this in the span of a single post, there's a lot of fundamental material you need to be aware of.

      I'd instead refer you to a very solid book by David Graeber called Debt, The first 5,000 years; and then The Wealth of Nations & The Wealth and Poverty of Nations, for a more broad economic understanding (when things actually worked).

      Following those two, Bridgewater's Report (Ray Dalio) Big Debt Crises will give you sufficient background to understand what they are talking about and realize its just a narrow niche that ignores the forest for the trees. There are people that believe you can borrow from the future indefinitely with debt, and the price never comes due; Modern Monetary Theory is one such dogmatic approach and it ignores important distinctions about who decides what in trade, and also unfortunately many places reuse language in a completely different unrelated context which itself is misleading and corruptive.

      Start with the question, "What is money, what is it used for, and what requirements does it have to have, to be money".

      thread
    3. than3Apr 2023
      Mostly Economics Recommendations here.

      The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith, and the Wealth and Poverty of Nations by Landes are both pivotal works related to economics. The first book describes the fundamental underpinnings of the requirements for economies to work at the micro level. Its written in a very easy to understand way, and doesn't throw magical thinking on you as later more modern works do. Modern economic courses practical benefits are only good for lying, and deceit since you can match the data to whatever narrative you happen to be trying to push. Its an appeal to authority that often isn't backed in any scientific or realistic way though it gives that allure to those who don't otherwise know. Its not a real science, and has largely been used with planning/justifying loans for the purpose of coercion. You might get a kick out of John Perkin's book, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman".

      The second book covers why northern lattitudes were able to accumulate so much wealth, while places like Africa and South America have been in a constant state of turmoil. It largely has to do with a number of factors that are not widely known outside certain circles. It has a number of historical case studies, it really drives home the ominous threat of climate change even though it doesn't touch on that at all.

      It is also important that you have a good solid understanding of how debt actually works, and why some of those "line in the sand" aspects of Smith's work are no longer bounds (largely due to unbacked fiat, i.e. reasonable prices that account for what makes up the reasonable cost of producing something).

      Additional research on the Economic Calculation Problem and how it relates to economics is also good. There were several books, that alas I cannot remember but someone mentioned them previously in a similar thread. The problem is most commonly scene in centrally planned economies, or in other words socialist economies, though it does affect all economies when the currency is not tied to a stable store of value (as in fiat currency).

      Very important stuff since we have been recently seeing a number of economic issues which have been previously documented. First you centralize and concentrate, then you nationalize (though they won't call it that). Credibility is terribly important when it comes to stores of value, and once its lost, its lost for good. There can be no trust after a precipitating event.

      As a final recommendation, I'd recommend the Big Debt Crises by Ray Dalio. It covers in-depth case studies of various economic cycles. (Cost Push vs Demand Pull Inflation, Hyperinflation, Depression, and Deflationary Spirals iirc). The media lies about this all the time, its good to be educated.

      Though, you do have to ground yourself as some of the conclusions written are wrong due to fundamental misunderstandings of who determines prices and produces products. Price discovery is incredibly important, and everything goes out the window if the data you are looking at for a market lacks adequate price discovery. In the short, or long term (metals spot pricing and libor rates being a perfect example of price fixed markets).

      Incidentally, this can also potentially dovetail into other historical research. Though, again, as a reminder, its important to ground yourself.

      A lot of history is very dark, and those that fail to learn history are doomed to make the same missteps that repeat it. Don't get bogged down in what you can't control. Forewarned is forearmed.

      thread
    4. than3Apr 2023
      Its David Graeber, and the book is good. I had similar epiphany's with The Wealth of Nations, and Wealth and Poverty of Nations.

      These things should be taught in public education but aren't, likely because of ideological indoctrination.

      Unbacked debt breaks the guard rails for rational pricing of both products and labor. In the 1770s, it was recognized that the price of labor couldn't go below what it costs to raise 4 children with a spouse, which was necessary to have 1 make it alive to 18.

      thread
    5. than3Mar 2023
      > I've been hearing that the death of the planet has been 10-30 years away . We're still here.

      That argument is solely based on survivor bias.

      Also, critical systems are now in such a state of brittle disrepair that it wouldn't take much for everything to break down unexpectedly.

      Currency (store of value), Fuel/Energy, Logistics (trains/ cheap shipping), and Food (farms), take your pick.

      Any single one of those areas can lead to a cascading failure.

      Most people also don't realize as the world heats up you have to suddenly start dealing with problems only commonly found in the tropics but now at the northern latitudes.

      If you've read the Wealth and Poverty of Nations, you'd know why the northern latitude countries were able to develop rapidly whereas the tropical latitudes were averse to human life and husbandry.

      There are parts of Africa where microscopic parasites live in the water, and animal husbandry in those areas is impossible. The higher environmental temperatures allow these organisms to thrive. If you eat the meat of contaminated animals, you get sick and die.

      There are many reasons why you are asked if you have traveled outside the country recently when you visit the doctor.

      thread
    6. than3Dec 2022
      No, you are very wrong, and on a brand new account no less so there is always the strong possibility you are one of those trolling bots. Thus my responses will be limited, credibility of new accounts is tenuous at best.

      If you were educated you would realize there is a fundamental limit under which real purchasing power cannot go below for any length of time, and rate of pay failing to meet inflation yearly for several decades would eventually reach a breaking point.

      Paid time off simply translates into purchasing power, and the fact they can't hire more people because almost no one is willing to enter the industry because there's no profit to be made, and yet everything depends on it running smoothly. They can't raise their prices, have two conductors (god forbid something happen to one in-transit) or even hire security guards to ensure people don't steal from slow moving trains.

      If you have the inkling and want to educate yourself, I'd recommend you start with The Wealth of Nations, by Adam Smith 1778.

      It describes the fundamentals of why our economy worked, and why it has slowly stagnated with the increased legislation (regulation), consolidation (monopolization), and frauds of various entities.

      After that, a primer on socialism's key elements (i.e. centralized power structures, (lack of)property rights, monopolistic industry, etc,) and its major failings which is why most people say its responsible for more deaths than any other system (Nazis, Mao, etc).

      From there, Wealth and Poverty of Nations by Landis and you should then be able to competently speak.

      thread

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