A fiery peace in a cold war

What Hacker News says

1. jacksonkmarleyDec 2022
   Listened to a lot of audiobooks this year, and can recommend:

   A Fiery Peace in a Cold War: Bernard Schriever and the Ultimate Weapon by Neil Sheehan (Biography and background to the development of the ICBM)

   The American War in Afghanistan: A History by Carter Malkasian

   One Minute to Midnight by Michael Dobbs (about the Cuban missile crisis)

   Chip War by Chris Miller (about the semiconductor industry and it's place in geopolitical competition)

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2. mjreacherOct 2021
   Hi, I'd like to make a few comments on von Neumann considering I've spent some time reading around about him.

   First of all, on the biography. So far for me the biographies written about von Neumann have two key problems to me:

   1) They avoid his mathematical work and focus on his work in game theory, computing, nuclear weapons, etc. I find this a bit problematic because despite all his other achievements, von Neumann was fundamentally a mathematician who applied his skills in mathematics and logic to other fields to great success, however before all this he first made many substantial contributions to pure mathematics. Now the question is how can one author cover these broad areas that von Neumann contributed to at a reasonable level? I'm not really sure it can be done, even von Neumann's colleagues themselves weren't fully aware of the extent of his work. For example I remember reading some interview of one where they said he never made any contributions to number theory, yet von Neumann early in his career did publish at least two papers on the field, one on algebraic number theory and another on transcendental number theory. So perhaps multiple authors, each covering their specialty would work better if they can make their chapters weave together nicely. Another problem is what level should it be. I personally would like it to be around STEM major level mathematics so you can properly introduce some concepts however I understand most authors wouldn't do this because it decreases their possible audience.

   2) Not much research is done into what technical work he did in defence and for private companies (particularly IBM). From the biographies I've read they all happily cover how von Neumann was this greatly respected figure and how he lead this committee and that committee and how on his deathbed he had the chiefs of all the armed forces and the chiefs of staff there too but that isn't really covering the actual technical work he did there (a good reference for his government consultancies is `A Fiery Peace in a Cold War`). He obviously consulted widely in the military, CIA, NSA, etc, military establishment in general but in terms of technical work not much is there, presumably because all the records are hidden or classified. I can understand why some of his work even today might remain that way (particularly his work on nuclear weapons) but I've yet to have seen anyone try send a FOI request to various agencies and see what they can fish out given that he died over 60 years ago. He did spend a lot of time on these things post WW2 so it would be interesting to see what he did actually contribute to beyond his position on committees and advocacy.

   I notice several other comments on this page I think I can make a educated comment on as well.

   First about his views on communism. As a child in Hungary von Neumann lived through several revolutions, one communist and another antisemitic. He was at risk of attack from both groups, from the communists for being part of a wealthy family and from antisemites and far righters for being a Jew. Safe to say I can imagine this ordeal while he was a teenager didn't leave a good taste in his mouth, especially as he had to move around the country to avoid being attacked and potentially killed. His remark about bombing them at a certain o'clock was from 1950, just as communism was being spread quite forcefully through violence around Europe and you can imagine why he wanted to prevent this from happening, especially considering the USA would probably lose a conventional war at this time, however they still did maintain a monopoly on nuclear weapons (for a short period). I would also like to note that for whatever reason he seemed to believe nuclear war was inevitable, and made an admission on his death bed that he believed nuclear war was "absolutely certain" to occur in the future and that everyone would die from it. This might help explain his comments if he sincerely believed nuclear war was inevitable anyway (luckily it wasn't). I would also note that he visited Moscow for a conference in 1935 and I'm sure he had many friends there, so views that he wanted to exterminate civilians for the sake of it or whatever would also be clearly wrong.

   Second on the Kyoto scenario. Despite wikipedia claiming so, scanning Macrae's biography shows no indication that von Neumann had Kyoto as his first choice, but rather one of 4 cities he voted for. From what I understand the targeting of Kyoto was first added for technical reasons, and did in fact have strategic value, however the targeting committee did also note that perhaps a city full of intellectuals would more likely appreciate the significance of the bomb and hence advocate for a more peaceful solution (http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2014/08/08/kyoto-misconceptio...).

   Third on the good upbringing argument. A good way to see how special von Neumann was compared to other mathematicians and scientists is to get their opinions themselves, unfortunately most are long dead however several history projects do include information on this. This [1] is a good example. Basically everyone who mentions von Neumann notes that his speed and rapidity is bar absolutely none, however one of them (Edward McShane) does quote fellow Princeton mathematician Solomon Lefschetz in saying that they paid too much respect to von Neumann because of his upbringing and in particular he had the finest tutoring by Hungarian mathematicians as a child. However a counterexample to this is simple. If it was just that, then why has no one like von Neumann come up in the past 100+ years? Especially considering how material conditions and access to information have only improved since the early 1900s when von Neumann grew up.

   [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20011126182532/http://infoshare1...

   Overall I think von Neumann is someone particularly unique. Not because of his creativity, nor because of insight, sure he may have had these qualities but so did many other people. What is unique about him is his speed. Looking at some of these interviews on several occasions it seems that von Neumann was literally making up new proofs for some theorem on the spot. Whether he thought about them beforehand or whether he did truly make them up on the spot is of course in question, but it seems he did it often enough one might could not be blamed for believing that the latter version is what he really did. I would also note a strange fascination that HN seems to have with von Neumann, as I see him here quite regularly and I can understand for some the worship is excessive, so it is important to note even someone of his caliber can make mistakes, the most important one I believe is already mentioned in this thread which is the mathematicization of the measurement problem. Everyone can make mistakes, and absolutely no one is immune from this.

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3. mjreacherJun 2022
   Yes definitely, but I feel that the mindset is to make a lasting contributions, something significant enough that it would remain important even one hundred years into the future. For example von Neumann had incredible respect for Kurt Gödel and said his incompleteness theorems were a "landmark in space and time", he wanted to make discoveries on that tier, and I am not sure he felt he did. Of course the way technology and computers panned out he ended up being more famous than basically any other mathematician for his role there, but obviously he couldn't have known that at the time. I would also add getting rid of bullshit jobs to the adjustments that you have listed as examples.

   Most biographies of him strangely enough don't really go into too much detail on his work at the AEC, perhaps because there's already so much to talk about but also perhaps because a lot of this stuff was classified. It doesn't help either that the earliest biographies were only written more than 20 years after he died, and back in his lifetime in the first half of the 20th century not as much was written down as these days. I am assuming you are talking about his life in the 1940s and 1950s when you say "this portion of his life" so I'll give recommendations based off that. All the main biographies generally cover it but I'll give a few notes to help you make a decision. Not in any particular order.

   - The Martian's Daughter: A Memoir

   His daughter's autobiography, first part of the book talks about their relationship and given she was born in 1935 most of it covers the last parts of his life.

   - John von Neumann and Norbert Wiener: From Mathematics to the Technologies of Life and Death

   This is the first biography by Heims; goes more into detail about their war work but I would point out though that Heims pretty clearly aims to denigrate von Neumann as a war hawk, none of the quotes are false or anything like that but when the book first came out several of von Neumann's colleagues criticized the book for trying to character assassinate him.

   - The Computer from Pascal to von Neumann

   Goldstine talks about the history of the computer but about two-thirds of the book covers work von Neumann and him both did together and there is plenty of biographical material on von Neumann. Obviously more focused on computers though.

   - John von Neumann and the Origins of Modern Computing

   Unlike Goldstine's book this is a biography von Neumann, however unlike Goldstine Aspray didn't know von Neumann as a close collaborator. Like Goldstine's it also focuses more on computing, not as much Goldstine however a lot of von Neumann's automata work is tied up with computers so it's a good read regardless.

   - Prisoner's Dilemma: John Von Neumann, Game Theory, and the Puzzle of the Bomb

   This book focuses more on game theory with less biographical material on von Neumann, however it does have a dedicated chapter to his last years and what he was doing then.

   - John von Neumann: The Scientific Genius Who Pioneered the Modern Computer, Game Theory, Nuclear Deterrence, and Much More

   This is probably the biggest biography, it is very even describing each stage of von Neumann's life. It is a bit more of a hero worship compared the other books which you'll notice if read the reviews of the book. Less technical compared to the others too.

   - The World as a Mathematical Game: John Von Neumann and Twentieth Century Science

   This one tries to evaluate von Neumann's contributions to 20th century science overall, as it was written in 2009 it does source to the previous books quite a bit. Shorter compared to the others.

   - The Man from the Future: The Visionary Life of John von Neumann

   This one was only released this year, it's a biography but it kind of tries to describe the world around von Neumann at his time and how he fits into it. Obviously by now almost everyone who knew him personally aside from his daughter and a handful of others are dead so it focuses more on his technical contributions rather than anecdotes on his influence.

   - Turing's Cathedral: the Origins of the Digital Universe

   This one is also more focused on computing, has some things that aren't written in the others as Dyson did a particularly good job going through some of the archives, but not as much focused on von Neumann compared to the others.

   - A Fiery Peace in a Cold War: Bernard Schriever and the Ultimate Weapon

   Isn't a biography of von Neumann but of Schriever, who worked with von Neumann to setup the first ICBM programs in the USA. Obviously the main focus here is on the military and political side of von Neumann's work in the 1940s and 50s, and not much else in terms of his life. However contains lots of information on this particular part of his life that other books lack.

   If you look at the "Further Reading" section of his Wikipedia page there is a long list of books that feature him heavily in case you want more. Happy reading!

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