Unconscious Civilization

What Hacker News says

1. dade_Mar 2017
   It isn't a cult, but I agree that it looks like one.

   https://www.amazon.ca/Unconscious-Civilization-John-Ralston-...

   "Saul engagingly explains the current woes of democracy, especially in Canada, the U.S., and Britain. He argues from history and philosophy that the democratic meaning of individualism has been obscured and the importance of economics overemphasized throughout the twentieth century. With Socrates, he maintains that in a democracy, citizenship is the incumbent duty and government the great responsibility of the individual. Minding one's own business and getting the government off one's back are derelictions of democracy that reflect infatuation with corporatism, the brand of utopianism exemplified by Mussolini's fascism, with its melding of huge business interests and government to achieve the managed society. Privatization as a remedy for government inefficiency and the conception of individualism as the capacity to purchase consumer goods bespeak corporatism's present power, for both reduce citizenship and place control with managers accountable primarily for the bottom line, not the public good. There are many more compelling--and disquieting--ideas in this exciting, though discursive, little book." Ray Olson

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2. batistaJan 2012
   Actually, the same thing.

   All society is turning to "organized corporations" controlled by the state.

   That's why in my comment above, I did not only talk about corporations as such ("Microsoft", "Google", "Apple", "GE", etc), but also about lobbies in general.

   All those (actual companies, and aggregate lobbying entities like the health lobby, the christian lobby, the gay lobby, the gun lobby, the press lobby) etc are the equivalent of fascism corporations.

   A nice discourse of this can be found in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Unconscious-Civilization-John-Ralston-...

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3. dade_Nov 2011
   Financial metrics are great to measure the health of a company, but I don't think anyone ever intended companies to be run by financial metrics. This isn't just happening in business though, these ideas were also brought into the public sector, police forces and military. Each are an ongoing disaster. John Raulston Saul has written many great books on the subject including Voltaire's Bastards, and The Unconscious Civilization.
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4. naradaellisJul 2010
   John Ralston Saul's book Unconscious Civilization (a kind of primer on his theories I think, which one would read before they tackle Voltaire's Bastards) does a wonderful job of elaborating this point, anyone interested in an article such as this would do well to read the book,

   Capitalism - real capitalism, not the cowardice we see masquarading as capitalism a lot of the time - is fine, corporatism and the power we give corps. by surrendring to them is what is dismantling democracy and individual liberty. (And Ralston Saul posits that this is an age-old battle, whether it be corps. in their modern form, or as in the Catholic Church).

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5. doctor_evalJun 2023
   Here it is:

   https://www.amazon.com/Unconscious-Civilization-John-Ralston...

   "In this intellectual tour de force John Ralston Saul argues that our society is only superficially based on the individual and democracy, and the West now toils unconsciously in the grip of a stifling “corporatist” structure that serves the needs of business managers and technocrats as it promotes the segmentation of society into competing interest groups and ethnic blocks."

   Published in 1999, so not quit pre-internet. But I still bought paper books back then!

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