A Man for All Seasons

What Hacker News says

1. pseudolusJan 2023
   If violating or diminishing constitutional rights for the purpose of obtaining a prosecution is on the table then there's not really much to the constitutional order to begin with. Robert Bolt, one of the great playwrights of the 20th century, recognized this in "A Man for All Seasons". There's a brief excerpt of the film on Youtube that resonates particularly well today:

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUqytjlHNIM&ab_channel=Crass...

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2. arminiusreturnsNov 2020
   This comment doesn't stand up to any kind of scrutiny whatsoever.

   One, handwaving institutional corrupt and violation of the constitution by claiming it's only a few "bad actors" ignores how high up that corruption emenates from. Two, it assumes that the violations are needed for national security, a claim which can easily be dissected by understanding what William Binney has told us about thinthread, just as an singular example in a vast sea of examples. Three, it's a strawman to jump to arguing that because other countries are doing this, we need the NSA too. Very few people are actually calling for the dismembership of the NSA, and in general want accountability and a return to constitutional surveillance. Four, implying the constitution is a "moral position that loses" is absolutely a machievellian, realpolitik, ends-justify-the-means policy position that we and the world have suffered enough consequences and blowback of.

   Your entire argument revolves around using the safety as justification for violations of their mandate and oaths, when all the evidence points towards the truth being quite the opposite: the surveillance program has failed to be effective for safety, and not only that, that failure is largely due to this very kind of thinking in the first place! By being willing to undermine the constitution the NSA (et al intel agencies) inherently reduce long term security and safety in the US by allowing bad actors in all kinds of sectors the ability to abuse the data they get.

   The totalitarian surveillance system is about control, not safety, always remember that!

   "Go again and see not just the film and the play but read the text of Robert Bolt's wonderful play "Man For All Seasons", some of you must have seen it - where Sir Thomas Moore decides that he would rather die than lie or betray his faith and at one moment Moore is arguing with a particularly vicious witch-hunting prosecutor (a servant of the king and a hungry and ambitious man), and Moore says to this man "You'd break the law to punish the Devil, wouldn't you?" And the prosecutor, the witch hunter, says "Break it?" He said "I'd cut down every law in England if I could do that, if I could capture him." And Moore says "Yes you would wouldn't you? And then when you corner the Devil and the Devil turned round to meet you, where would you run for protection? All the laws of England having been cut down and flattened, who would protect you then?" - Christopher Hitchens

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3. delichonDec 2025

     William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”
   
     Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”
   
     William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”
   
     Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!”
   

   ― Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons: A Play in Two Acts
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4. randcrawApr 2025
   I think you don't look down at the product of AI, only the process that created it. Clearly the craft that created the object has become less creative, less innovative. Now it's just a variation on a theme. Does such work really deserve the same level of recognition as befitted Beethoven for his Ninth or Robert Bolt for his "A Man for all Seasons"?
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5. cmdkeenOct 2023
   “William Roper: “So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!”

   Sir Thomas More: “Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?”

   William Roper: “Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!”

   Sir Thomas More: “Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!” ― Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons: A Play in Two Acts

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6. mcpackiehAug 2023
   I'm glad you brought up Batman; that's a great example: Batman violates everybody's civil liberties by creating a panopticon device that spies on everybody to catch one terrorist, but it's okay because he's Batman, the good guy, and he's fighting the evil terrorist who's evil for the sake of being evil. And then the audience gets to feel good about this not-so-subtle allegory to the American government's response to 9/11 because Batman has his friend destroy the panopticon device once the terrorist has been defeated, showing the audience that the good guys can be trusted to relinquish these great powers once the crisis has passed. Except in reality that never happens and those powers are not just retained but greatly expanded. The narrative is a sweet lie that the audience feels good about, making them complacent towards reality. You saw this one, right? It was very popular, audiences clapped like trained seals.

   And then here you are calling Batman an idiot for having any boundaries at all. It's a no-brainer that he should be murdering bad guys without so much as a trial; it would be fine because he's the good guy so obviously he'd get it right. The great atrocities of the 20th century were perpetrated by people who felt certain the ends justified their means, but fictional media has you thinking that reality is unrealistic. Capeshit is trash, it rots your brain. It belongs in the rubbish bin.

   Ironically, characters who speak as you do would make excellent villains in stories with nuanced morality. You seem certain that you're in the right as you speak of murdering people. This exemplifies realistic evil.

   From A Man for All Seasons, a play by Robert Bolt:

   Roper: So now you’d give the Devil benefit of law?

   More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

   Roper: I’d cut down every law in England to do that!

   More: Oh? And, when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you – where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country’s planted thick with laws from coast to coast – man’s laws, not God’s – and, if you cut them down – and you’re just the man to do it – d’you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake.

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