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    Cover of The Peloponnesian War

    The Peloponnesian War

    Donald Kagan · 2003

    For three decades in the fifth century b.c. the ancient world was torn apart bya conflict that was as dramatic, divisive, and destructive as the world wars of the twentieth century: The Peloponnesian War. Donald Kagan, one of the worldrsquo;s most respected classical, political, and military historians, here presents a new account of this vicious war of Greek against Greek, Athenian against Spartan. The Peloponnesian War is a magisterial work of history written for general readers, offering a fresh examination of a pivotal moment in Western civilization. With a lively, readable narrative that conveys a richly detailed portrait of a vanished world while honoring its timeless relevance. The Peloponnesian War is a chronicle of the rise and fall of a great empire and of a dark time whose lessons still resonate today. One of the world's foremost historians presents a fresh look at the greatest war of ancient Greece and a pivotal moment in Western civilization that still resonates today.

    History
    Open LibraryAmazon
    Stats for nerds
    3recommend
    6mentions
    6people
    2017–2023years
    50% recommend50% neutral

    Mentions per year

    2017201820192020202120222023

    What Hacker News says

    1. zeteoJul 2023
      A rather authoritative reference point here is Donald Kagan's "The Peloponnesian War", which has been generally well regarded over the past two decades. Paul Rahe's recent book also seems well documented. Here are a couple of reviews to get you started:

      https://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2021/2021.03.44/

      https://newcriterion.com/issues/2021/1/the-spartan-way-of-wa...

      > One of the many Spartan enigmas—the reluctance to deploy an otherwise superior military—was not really an enigma at all.

      > Sparta’s original paramilitary force, with time and sustenance to train and drill constantly against internal enemies, eventually evolved, by the early fifth century, into a crack expeditionary army, one even deadlier against Greek rivals than against Sparta’s restive serfs.

      > Its unmatched hoplite army was often put to Panhellenic use, most famously by the three hundred at Thermopylae and as the “Dorian Spear” that crushed the Persians at Plataea.

      > In this regard, Rahe shows that purportedly blinkered Spartan foreign policies gradually proved more astute than those of sophisticated Athens.

      thread
    2. tomeJul 2023
      If you're interested in lectures I can recommend The Peloponnesian War by Kenneth Harl published by The Great Courses (also available on Audible). It's one of the best lecture series I've listened to in any subject.

      https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/peloponnesian-war

      thread
    3. CalChrisOct 2021
      Start with the Iliad and I recommend the Lattimore translation although Fagles is good too. You may want to read the first book (chapter) a few times to get the flow. You may also want the backstory, the Judgment of Paris and the Golden Apple. This kind of explains why the Achaeans are there at Troy.

      BTW, watch Troy with Brad Pitt. It's got its points but it really deemphasizes the gods. It takes liberties but it's fun.

      Then read the Odyssey. The Odyssey is a little stranger because it's kind of told backwards.

      Then Virgil's Aeneid. Virgil is 'plagiarizing' Homer and steals a minor character Aeneas; so it helps to know the Iliad+Odyssey to get the homage. There is a really good course/podcast on the Aeneid by Susanna Braund from Stanford.

      https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/virgils-aeneid/id38423...

      There is also the Harvard class, the Ancient Greek Hero, which may help.

      https://online-learning.harvard.edu/course/ancient-greek-her...

      Thucydides The Peloponnesian War has great parallels and lessons. In the middle of the war, some idiots ( Alcibiades) decide to attack Sicily because it was going to be easy and the war will pay for itself; they get their asses kicked. You can read this as an allegory for Iraq, an expensive pointless distraction led by idiots. There's also the Siege of Melos.

      Yale has a good course by Donald Kagan (Project for a New American Century Donald Kagan) that has background for all this.

      https://oyc.yale.edu/classics/clcv-205

      thread
    4. B1FF_PSUVMOct 2021
      """ The Outbreak of the Peloponnesian War Hardcover – August 31, 1969 by Donald Kagan (Author)

      Kagan takes issue with Thucydides' view that the war was inevitable, that the rise of the Athenian Empire in a world with an existing rival power made a clash between the two a certainty. """

      That's impressive. People pay too little attention to the matrix that's been popping out copies all these centuries.

      thread
    5. jkingsberyAug 2019
      "Sparta preserved its regional dominance more by restraint than by hunger for conquest. Thucydides’s history portrays the Spartans as reluctant to go to war and often more merciful than their more liberal-minded opponents."

      As Donald Kagan writes in his book about the Peloponnesian War, this was very likely self interested restraint - the entire basis of their economy was the exploitation of the Helots, and there was a fear that battles of conquest would have resulted in a revolt back in Athens. There was also the fact that every time the Spartans attempted even modest naval excursions, it completely failed, making a larger empire in an area with a lot of water impractical.

      I totally agree with emulating the best in other cultures as the other says at the bottom in summary, but in some cases, there are trade-offs that are hard to decouple. In the case of Sparta, the freedom to ignore the accumulation of wealth was a luxury earned by an elite on the forced labor of others.

      thread
    6. xrefNov 2017
      wow, amazing coincidence since I was just reading earlier today about the 425BCE Battle of Pylos in Donald Kagan's The Peloponnesian War. and that battle was a thousand years after this burial!

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pylos

      thread

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