Migrations and Cultures

What Hacker News says

1. stcredzeroJan 2023
   There is a lot of historical evidence, that deep knowledge and long tail expertise in specific industries is carried in groups of people with a close knit subculture.

   Such knowledge can also be transmitted from one subculture to another, with varying degrees of success. In order to bring in new people, one must either bring in a few beginners into a majority competent population, or have one subculture highly motivated to absorb and replicate the success of another.

   This is well covered in Migrations And Cultures: A World View by Thomas Sowell.

   Show morethread
2. m0lluskMar 2021
   If you focus on his politics especially in a right-left context that makes sense, but his work touches on many social subjects and has considerable depth. I strongly recommend his book Migrations and Cultures where he documents how migrations tend to involve whole social groups and preserve networks.

   His conservative confidence seems to be his weakest spot. He is fond of claiming that any attempt to help the poor or discriminated against ends up harming them yet universal basic income trials have all had dramatically positive results. Extremists can bring up interesting arguments and information but tend to fail when it comes to realism, balance, and most important of all getting things done in order to make positive change.

   Show morethread
3. stcredzeroMar 2019
   Outcomes are the only holistic way to measure opportunity.

   I'm sorry, but that's "not even wrong" as Pauli would say.

   what you're really saying is, "The groups who haven't traditionally been in power are in that position because they are innately less capable."

   Group cultures/subcultures can pass on knowledge, which can then provide advantages and then be transmitted to different groups. No racial or innate superiority or inferiority is needed for such an explanation. This is well corroborated by history. (See Thomas Sowell's Migrations And Cultures: A World View) An example of this is found in the German influences in Mexico, and the part of Monterrey one of my old hackerspace colleagues is from. He's quite proud of the progressive schooling he had and of the engineering culture there. (The story of German emigration has its stories of misfortune as well, including examples of German ethnic disadvantage as well.)

   20th century hacker culture has its roots in the model railway building scene, which was largely a male space. There's nothing inherently male about model railway building or hacking itself, but there was something about the subculture which was. If we're to change this, then it shouldn't be done from the punitive and negative standpoint of blame, but from a positive view of transmission. No "inherent" or identitarian notions are needed at all.

   Show morethread
4. stcredzeroFeb 2018
   The measurement of general intelligence is just about the most strongly predictive tool in Psychology.

   Here's some things from Thomas Sowell's Migrations and Cultures that people don't know about intelligence as measured by groups. Polish and Italian immigrant communities went from the mid-80's average IQ to over 100 over the 1st half of the 20th century. Poles had increased their average IQ to 108. In another study, African American children of US service people growing up in Germany had the same average IQs as their classmates.

   So could factors outside of genetics, like culture, have powerful effects on IQ? It certainly looks like it. Advocates of Social Justice should be looking for what these factors are. Whatever those factors are, not seeking to deliver them to underprivileged groups is like letting lead get into the water of Flint Michigan: It can mean huge differences in the IQs of growing children. Instead, what I see from the far left, is the willful suppression of such information. If it doesn't fit the political agenda and narrative, then it's a-priori a product of bigotry or bias of some kind. Sorry, but that strikes me as cynical and very odd. It's almost like someone cares more about power than the welfare of the underprivileged.

   More on the specific topic of the op, the SAT and ACT certainly don't measure everything. Perhaps there is some kind of bias in workplace culture that puts too much emphasis on the skills well measured by such tests, while other kinds of skills are underappreciated? My intuitive sense, considering what tech is like, is that it's probably true.

   Show morethread
5. stcredzeroFeb 2018
   I can cite studies showing worse outcomes for African Americans for example, but I’d be a deceptive ass if I tried to pawn that of as proof off innate differences.

   If one considers studies from around the world, across many cultures, it's pretty clear to me that there's no IQ huge disadvantage to having African genetics. Nigerian immigrants are presently kicking ass and even outdoing Asians. Immigrant from many Caribbean backgrounds do very well. Also cited by myself elsewhere, there's a study that found that the African American children of US servicepeople in Germany was basically the same as their classmates. Whatever's the cause of lowered IQs in underprivileged African American children in the US, it's not genetic.

   Historical IQ studies suggest that immigrant groups can raise their average IQs by a lot. Historical studies of such groups also indicate that the degree of group assimilation and participation in society versus group isolation can have huge effects on the wealth of the group. A pattern that arises again and again, are elites of some such groups that keep their group isolated to retain subgroup power. This pattern can cause the same ethnic group to have widely disparate economic success in different parts of the world. (German immigrant communities are a good example of this phenomenon.)

   The above is discussed in Thomas Sowell's Migrations and Cultures.

   Show morethread
6. stcredzeroFeb 2018
   The above is discussed in Thomas Sowell's Migrations and Cultures.

   An overarching theme in Thomas Sowell's books: The world is ruled by human capital, that is: cultures and people's ideas of how the world is and should be. Thinkers like Jordan Peterson would add that the world is also ruled by various forces working below the level of consciousness, for which humans have developed religion and art to try and deal with -- which also fall under the rubric of culture.

   I think it's Culture which is the dominant factor, and this is a great foundation of hope. It means that all of the greatest accomplishments of human civilizations are available to all peoples, given enough effort to transform one's understanding and way of life. Such is the power of culture, that this effort may take generations to accomplish. History bears this out. If the descendants of Irish peasants (who, during the potato famine could start out 1/2 to 1/4th as wealthy as the average US slave) could arrive at their current place in modern society, then there's basically nothing that cultural transmission can't accomplish, given enough resources and time.

   Show morethread