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    Tantek Çelik

    tantek.com · Personal blog · on HN since 2007

    Tantek Çelik, a web standards contributor and IndieWeb founder, writes about open web principles, CSS, and personal websites.

    Visit blogRSSHN submissions
    Web DevelopmentOpen Source & Linux
    What HN says

    Commenters quote his 'js;dr' idea that if it's not curlable it's not on the web, and cite his personal site and early CSS experiments.

    Stats for nerds
    58HN people shared it
    39linked in comments
    621story points
    Sep 2024last shared
    2007people per year2024

    Top posts on HN

    1. 1
      js;dr = JavaScript required; Didn’t Read.
      8 people · 266 points · first shared 2015 · 215 comments on HN
    2. 2
      The Acceleration of Addictiveness vs Willpower, Productivity, and Flow
      1 person · 128 points · first shared 2011 · 29 comments on HN
    3. 3
      How many ways can you slice a URL and name the pieces?
      6 people · 70 points · first shared 2011 · 12 comments on HN
    4. 4
      The First Federated Indieweb Comment Thread
      2 people · 45 points · first shared 2013 · 22 comments on HN
    5. 5
      Making Userinterfaces FEEL responsive
      5 people · 34 points · first shared 2007 · 1 comments on HN
    6. 6
      Why You Should Use Timezone Offsets Not Timezone Names
      1 person · 26 points · first shared 2015 · 49 comments on HN
    7. 7
      What is the open web?
      5 people · 19 points · first shared 2010 · Discussion on HN
    8. 8
      On Silos vs An Open Social Web
      1 person · 6 points · first shared 2013 · Discussion on HN
    9. 9
      There are HTML classes and CSS selectors, but no CSS classes.
      1 person · 4 points · first shared 2012 · Discussion on HN
    10. 10
      Disappointed in W3C for Recommending Longdesc
      1 person · 3 points · first shared 2015 · Discussion on HN

    What HN people wrote when they linked it

    • cwyersNov 2015

      The article doesn't define the "open web," and platforms like Facebook and Twitter would seem to mostly follow the dictates set out in Tantek's original definition.[1] So it's hard to guess at what the author means -- Facebook and Twitter aren't "the open web" by tautology, basically. It's really hard to engage with the author's arguments that way.

      What is trivial to understand is that the author's proposed remedy doesn't work:

      > The answer is simple, but it isn’t easy. We need to stop pretending that content is free. Publications need to ask readers to pay for their content directly, and readers need to be willing to give up money, as opposed to their privacy and attention. This means that publications will have to abandon the rapid-growth business models driven by display ads, which have driven them to rely on Facebook for millions of pageviews a month.

      The fundamental problem with this is that siloing content the way the author suggests (publications with strong identities and paywalls to get readers to give money in exchange for content) breaks hyperlinks. It breaks sharing. Paywalls work when there's a marginal benefit to knowing something that someone else doesn't -- say, it helps you pick stocks better than the next guys. Otherwise, all else being equal, the article I can share with my friends, link to in my blog post, that I can engage with and respond to and have other people able to read the same article I am -- that's far more valuable than the article that I…

    • e1venOct 2007

      Here are a few links from my bookmark folder on the subject, in no particular order:

      How to use contrast to your advantage-
      http://www.gomediazine.com/design-tip/rule-three-contrast-contrast-contrast/

      Use colors that have varying intensities, not just differnet colors. Focus on how it looks in greyscale
      http://www.gomediazine.com/design-tip/becoming-a-master-designer-rule-two-limit-your-colors/

      Visualizing Fitt's Law
      http://particletree.com/features/visualizing-fittss-law/

      Software Has personality.
      http://blogs.adobe.com/lightroomjournal/2007/09/lightrooms_goals_1.html

      Copy sites you like, such as:
      http://orderedlist.com/articles/single-line-css#comments
      or http://www.joyent.com/

      How to make your designs suck less:
      http://jimwhimpey.com/blog/2007/simple-ways-to-help-your-design-suck-less-1/

      Load faster, by doing a low-res version first.
      http://www.wait-till-i.com/index.php?p=464

      How to do sound design
      http://www.boxesandarrows.com/view/why_is_that_thing_beeping_a_sound_design_primer

      More on Sound Design
      http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2007/03/22/how-to-make-user-interfaces-musical.html

      Use smart color pickers
      http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=6434

      Whitespace Matters!
      http://alistapart.com/articles/whitespace

      You can make a UI feel responsive, by minimizing the number of clicks
      http://tantek.com/log/2007/02.html#d19t1813

      Write Production UIs, never use…

    • mindcrimeAug 2018

      I'm not outraged, but I think it's a self-defeating move for Facebook. Which is fine, since Facebook - as a walled garden which is opposed to the Open Web - needs to go away anyway.

      Edit:

      I'm thinking more and more that I will probably be deleting my Facebook account sometime in the not too distant future. I'd really rather be doing all of my information sharing / browsing / interaction using a pure Open Web[1] oriented platform and that's exactly what Facebook is not.

      Not sure exactly what form this will take, but I want to move to a platform which is not a walled garden, and is based on open and decentralized standards like RSS/Atom, ActivityStrea.ms, ActivityPub, RDF, FOAF, SIOC, XMPP, NNTP, SMTP, and the like.

      A proper Web platform should allow anyone to participate on their own terms without some corporation being able to arbitrarily decide the terms of what you can do, while simultaneously profiting from the resale of our personal data.

      Maybe this will mean Mastodon, maybe I'll go back to a self-hosted Roller based blog, etc. I already self-host an ejabberd server for XMPP messaging, so that will probably be part of what I do going forward.

      [1]: http://tantek.com/2010/281/b1/what-is-the-open-web

    • gsneddersJan 2018

      > then many years later 'box-sizing: border-box' was introduced and widely praised and adopted by frameworks

      Well, IE implemented their version of the box model in '97 (coincidently, NN4 did the same); the box-sizing property was first proposed in 1999[1], and first appeared in a draft in 1999[2], and implemented in Gecko in 1999[3] and in IE5/Mac in 2000[4].

      That's two years from IE/NN shipping the non-standard box model (the standard one was defined before IE4 and NN4 shipped) to having a property to toggle between them. To me, that isn't "many years".

      Really what makes it seem like many years is the fact that IE didn't implement box-sizing until IE8 which shipped in 2009.

      [1]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/1999JanMar/0201.html (sorry, W3C MO space, but I think at this point nobody cares if I mention that publicly)

      [2]: https://www.w3.org/TR/1999/WD-css3-userint-19990916#box-sizing

      [3]: https://github.com/mozilla/gecko/commit/3ee32d59158a036bd6673c72ed29b137f1fa78bb

      [4]: http://tantek.com/notes/csssupport.html

    • MachaNov 2014

      CSS 2 predates the rule.

      The initial drafts of CSS 2.1 on the other hand, were published in 2002, yet it was 2011 by the time it became a full reccomendation despite having been in use for a long period by that stage. CSS3 colors (i.e. rgba() etc.) also became a full recommendation on the same day.

      > Two months earlier, in March of 1998, CSS 2 had become a W3C Proposed Recommendation (PR) which meant that it was considered "done" and was simply awaiting a procedural W3C member review and vote. For all practical purposes, nothing else was going to get fixed in CSS 2. There wasn't a Candidate Recommendation (CR) phase back then, as evidence by the fact that no-one (including my Tasman team as part of Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 for the Macintosh) was able to implement CSS 2 as specified. The problems in CSS 2 were far more severe than mere errata - we had to develop a full revision to fix it.

      http://tantek.com/2011/160/b1/css-2-1-css3-w3c-open-web-standards-practices-learned

    • oneeyedpigeonJun 2021

      I'd be interested to know more about what type of content Trump published on his own blog, that proved unsuccessful. As someone observing from the UK, my assumption is that it was probably more long-form content. I wonder if comments were even possible. It wouldn't surprise me if short chunks of content, such as tweets, were far more popular with Trump's base than longer articles.

      Edit: I see there are what I assume to be a couple of examples from his blog. They look very much like individual tweets. This turns it into quite an interesting case, one of a handful of examples I've seen where someone publishes the equivalent of their own twitter stream, on their own site. I used to have a great example, but I can't for the life of me now find it! In the case I've seen previously, the content was syndicated from the site to twitter — obviously, Trump doesn't have that option.

      Edit2: It's Tantek Çelik's blog I'm thinking of: https://tantek.com/

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