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    Cassandra's Legacy

    cassandralegacy.blogspot.com · Personal blog · on HN since 2011

    Ugo Bardi, a chemist, writes about resource depletion, energy, and the 'Seneca effect', where societal decline is faster than growth.

    Visit blogHN submissions
    Climate & EnergyHistoryEconomics
    What HN says

    HN commenters cite it for the Seneca Cliff idea and for posts on Roman decline and EROI. One commenter dismisses the rare earth post as bullshit.

    Stats for nerds
    15HN people shared it
    8linked in comments
    17story points
    Aug 2024last shared
    2015people per year2024

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    What HN people wrote when they linked it

    • jk2323Dec 2017

      "The simplest: No exhaustible has been depleted yet"

      You are correct. In fact, they never will be depleted. Same with the oil. Most of the oil that is still in the ground will stay there.

      "These forecasts are made possible by assuming the limit on the amount of oil extracted is the amount of oil in the ground. In fact, the limit is likely to be a financial (debt) limit that comes much sooner."
      https://ourfiniteworld.com/2014/01/13/why-eia-iea-and-randers-2052-energy-forecasts-are-wrong/

      Please also see:
      Extracted: How the Quest for Mineral Wealth Is Plundering the Planet
      https://www.amazon.com/Extracted-Mineral-Wealth-Plundering-Planet/dp/1603585419

      It is well possible we are beyond the peak already. This brings us to the "Seneca effect"
      http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2011/08/seneca-effect-origins-of-collapse.html

      Otherwise: Business as usual.

    • wazooxMar 2019

      Gaël Giraud, chief economist of the national French agency for development, says that the only economic simulation that reliably tracked actual data for nearly 50 years is World3. He often says that usually, building a model predicting 18 months in the future is a sure way to get the Nobel, but this one is in a class of its own.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World3

      Here are some scientists' papers and opinions:

      https://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/publications/research-papers/is-global-collapse-imminent

      https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/09/discovering-limits-to-growth/
      https://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2011/09/cassandra-and-limits-to-growth.html

    • undershirtJul 2019

      > I guess it depends on your definition of "quickly", or it would be good to see a citation on this one.

      A citation in your favor would be how net energy output only slowly declines as EROI plummets[1]. Slow decline is a general property of these types ”Seneca Cliffs”[2] present in collapse.

      [1] https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-03-12/the-real-energy-return-of-crude-oil-smaller-than-you-would-have-imagined/

      [2] https://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2011/08/seneca-effect-origins-of-collapse.html

    • dredmorbiusApr 2015

      The term you're looking for is "Seneca Cliff", after the Roman Stoic philosopher, statesman, and dramatist.

      It's the observation that large and complex systems tend to fail suddenly and catastrophically.

      http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2014/12/fossil-fuels-are-we-on-edge-of-seneca.html

      We see this in business as well: the falls of MCI-Worldcom, Enron, and the collapses of multiple financial bubbles follow this dynamic.

    • BeijingerAug 2024

      It was part of the downfall of the Roman Empire

      1. Not enough mines to mine silver, exhausted based on their technology

      2. China sold silk and other stuff and accumulating silver

      https://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2014/03/peak-civilization-how-roman-empire.html

    • BlueTemplarFeb 2023

      Somewhat fascinatinagly, being renewable doesn't actually change the dynamics :

      https://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2011/05/peak-oil-thermodynamics-and-stoic.html?m=1

      (With the exception that whales, if left alone, might eventually bounce back.)

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