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    The Code Whisperer

    blog.thecodewhisperer.com · Personal blog · on HN since 2011

    J. B. Rainsberger writes on test-driven development, software design, and consulting for programmers.

    Visit blogRSSHN submissions
    ProgrammingCareer & Work
    What HN says

    Commenters recommend his "Integrated Tests Are a Scam" as a counterpoint on testing, and recommend him as a consultant and change agent.

    Stats for nerds
    31HN people shared it
    24linked in comments
    84story points
    Jul 2023last shared
    2013people per year2023

    Top posts on HN

    1. 1
      The Eternal Struggle Between Business and Programmers
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    2. 2
      TDD: For Those Who Don't Know How to Design Software
      1 person · 10 points · first shared 2024 · Discussion on HN
    3. 3
      TDD: You're Probably Doing It Just Fine
      2 people · 8 points · first shared 2024 · Discussion on HN
    4. 4
      No More Boilerplate Code
      1 person · 8 points · first shared 2016 · 1 comments on HN
    5. 5
      Integrated Tests Are a Scam (2010)
      11 people · 5 points · first shared 2016 · 1 comments on HN
    6. 6
      Integrated Tests Are A Scam
      1 person · 5 points · first shared 2014 · 7 comments on HN
    7. 7
      How TDD Affects My Designs
      1 person · 4 points · first shared 2014 · Discussion on HN
    8. 8
      Stop. Write a learning test.
      1 person · 3 points · first shared 2011 · Discussion on HN
    9. 9
      Which Kinds of Tests Should I Write? Revisited
      1 person · 2 points · first shared 2023 · Discussion on HN
    10. 10
      The Curious Case of Tautological TDD
      1 person · 2 points · first shared 2014 · Discussion on HN

    What HN people wrote when they linked it

    • doucheFeb 2016

      A graphic I found very enlightening in the past year is here: http://blog.thecodewhisperer.com/images/age_old_battle/virtuous_cycle.png

      from this blog post: http://blog.thecodewhisperer.com/2013/12/07/putting-an-age-old-battle-to-rest/

      There's a lot of other good stuff there too, when you start digging through the archives.

      Generally, I find that I've got to build a prototype first, which is quick and dirty and ugly, but works. Then iterate as the structure emerges. Some things stay in flux, and it's okay to leave them messier, but eventually the code and functionality settles out and commonality arises. Quite often, I don't necessarily know what I'm doing going in; I've got a general goal, but until I experiment a bit, the best way to get there is unclear.

      One of the joys and pitfalls of a multi-paradigm language like C# is that there are so many different ways to skin a cat. You can pick and choose procedural, object-oriented, functional, or some bastard mishmash of all of the above and more.

    • MorendilNov 2013

      > How did you go around to finding him?

      If you're going to shop around for a change agent, I recommend reading Jerry Weinberg's "Secrets of Consulting"; although this is targeted at consultants rather than their clients, it can provide useful insight into how to create an effective working partnership with one.

      Technical know-how doesn't by itself qualify someone to help you implement changes towards becoming more effective. It can be detrimental, in fact.

      But someone with a solid grasp of the fundamentals AND a productive attitude to coaching/mentoring/consulting can be a great asset. One I recommend wholeheartedly is JB: http://blog.thecodewhisperer.com/ (and if you can't get him, try to find someone like him).

    • phiggyJan 2014

      I think the point is something like "don't unit test the system as a whole". Black box testing is great and most definitely should be used, but should be kept very high level and unit tests should be kept very small and granular.

      The author has several other articles on the subject that I have not read yet, so I'm not sure if I've got a full understanding of his point yet: http://blog.thecodewhisperer.com/blog/categories/integrated-tests-are-a-scam

    • mdpopescuAug 2017

      I believe Microsoft's Pex [1] is an attempt to generate all the unit tests automatically. You can't do that with integration tests, because their number grows exponentially with the number of paths in the code [2].

      [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/pex-and-moles-isolation-and-white-box-unit-testing-for-net/

      [2] http://blog.thecodewhisperer.com/permalink/integrated-tests-are-a-scam

    • masklinnNov 2013

      > Technical know-how doesn't by itself qualify someone to help you implement changes towards becoming more effective. It can be detrimental, in fact.

      Yeah I'm well-aware of that.

      > One I recommend wholeheartedly is JB: http://blog.thecodewhisperer.com/ (and if you can't get him, try to find someone like him).

      Thanks for the suggestion.

    • teddyhJul 2023

      > Tests should mostly be integration, not unit.

      Other people disagree: <https://blog.thecodewhisperer.com/series#beware-the-integrated-tests-scam-was-integrated-tests-are-a-scam>

      In short (IIUC), integration tests do not give you any feedback on when your design needs to change, while unit tests do.

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